The Guild of Pagans

[Lady Erunáme]: *dOiNk*

[LadyKris]: I know this is kinda an odd request, but I need people to pray for my dog. She's very sick with seizures and can't walk or eat. I'm not really a pagan (Or christian or any other denomination), but I do believe in prayer. Please, I'd be so appreciative if you would pray for my dog Puppup, I'm really scared that she's not going to make it. Thank you so much.

[Fuu]: I will pray for her [LadyKris], all life is sacred, I will be happy to pray to the goddess on her behalf.

[Fireblade K'Chona]: All right.

[Lady Erunáme]: I too will do all that I can to help your beloved friend. I'm honored to be asked such a great thing.

[Thorgin]: I will also pray for your dog.

[Delladreing]: i will pray for you also

[SeraphicDeviltry]: so will i.

[FiSHr.]: I will pray too

[Thorgin]: Wow. And a friend of mine claim that pagans don't pray with the exception of christian wiccans

[Delladreing]: .......thats rediculous, every type of religion prays in some form, even if they dont call it that

[Thorgin]: yeah. I try telling her that there must be other pagans beside myself that pray, but she won't listen.

[SeraphicDeviltry]: spell work is a form of praying in my opinion..

[Delladreing]: they are kinda yea, you are presenting what you want to a force bigger than yourself when doing that normally

[Fireblade K'Chona]: Nope, we're not all elaborate rituals that require props and robes and stuff! A lot of us are actually rather lazy, and would rather just cast a circle and pray than bother to do an entire elaborate ritual for what amounts to the same thing... ;)

[Delladreing]: lol *raises hand* thatd be me ^_-

[Fireblade K'Chona]: And me. ^_^ Besides, I'm closet, I can't do entire elaborate rituals anyway. -shrug-

[Delladreing]: yea me too *sigh* oh well, its not like id be wanting to do big rituals anyway. ive been heavily influenced by some lovely folks who taught me its not the tools, nor is it how many fancy words you use, its what you do that counts. what your intentions are, and your sheer will to do it

[Thorgin]: Oh? That's too bad. I'm luckily out of the closet and nobody I know objects to it.

[Delladreing]: my parents were always christian ,it was only after i suggested that i had an "interest" in different religions that they became "strong christians" so i decided it wouldnt be worth the hassle to tell them, besides it would only upset them

[Fireblade K'Chona]: It seems as I get older, my parents become "stronger christians..." it's kind of odd, actually. Then again, my dad did live for a long time in the Bible Belt area. Oh well.

[Delladreing]: *shrugs* people are funy like that. mine didnt mind the fact that i had no interest in christianity, that was untill the lack of interest became and interest in other ways of life, then it god "preachy"

[Fireblade K'Chona]: Ah well. I'm sort of loosely pagan, if that makes any sense, but I'm not really anything. I believe in gods, of course, not just one, but...I don't know, it's complicated. -shrugs- As a random sidenote, I'm studying Buddhism in theology and I'm having a helluva good time!

[FiSHr.]: im a tad closet

[Fireblade K'Chona]: I used to be taken to church a lot, but the high-school program isn't a time I can go, so I don't really go to church anymore, except school Masses. Yup, I go to a Catholic school. -sigh-

[FiSHr.]: i go to church at christmas time for the carols and only for the carols.....not the readings or the teachings, the carols

[Delladreing]: ouch not good. my school is meant to be non denominational, but we still end up being preached at in the assemblies. its irritating, but i have learned to take it and just ignore it when they start going on about the "heathen" and some of my closer friends nudge me in the side and laugh...

[FiSHr.]: ....lol....at my old school we had church on a friday and actually this not a funny story, my friend got picked on because she was openly a witch and was called a "heathen" (she went home crying)

[Fireblade K'Chona]: Well, I have a lot of fun...I mean, we do pray every morning, but it's all different kinds of prayer...Buddhist prayers, poems, etc. Sometimes we just listen to music and meditate.

[FiSHr.]: cool

[Delladreing]:

www.kaskus.com/lightcandle

[Beautyeverywhere]: at my old school we had chapel every tuesday and thursday which was mandatory then on fridays during open period you could go to chapel and sing songs if you wanted to.

[Shadow serpenz]: i'm so sorry for you

[Froya]: same here..

[sapphiresphinx]: hey, does anyone have any advanced Wicca and/or Egyptian book suggestions? I'm looking at Devoted to You and Isis Magic...

[Beautyeverywhere]: for advanced wicca i'm a fan of scott cunnigham

[FiSHr.]: .....

[spongemonkey]: yar matey.

[FiSHr.]: lol

[spongemonkey]: ^_^

[FiSHr.]: ^^_^^

[spongemonkey]: :O

[FiSHr.]: lmaoo

[Dracotot]: *blow bubbles in her milk shake*...Im so bored! my sons with his dad...no money to go out...cleaned the house...*blows more bubbles* ...How is everyone?

[Fuu]: fine, you could always invite friends over and have a party

[FiSHr.]: *eats a leg*

[Dracotot]: hehe your idea of party was fun! I went out to a club

[Fuu]: ^_^. See thats what parties and clubs were created for

[FiSHr.]: *sits in dark cornor*

[Dracotot]: lol

[Fuu]: Are you alright dead?

[FiSHr.]: i miss my girl [sawa_x_]

[Fuu]: Oh.....

[FiSHr.]: lol

[spongemonkey]: what happened?

[wicked_morna]: @beauty: I hate his books, I prefer R. Buckland

[Master Wolf]: We should not forget that sometimes the best advice comes from less... shall we say serious writers. Terry Goodkind, for instance, in Wizard's First Rule reminds us that "People are stupid"

[Master Wolf]: though perhaps gullable would have been a more appropriate choice

[FiSHr.]: lol

[a faerie tale]: Haha.......but aint it the truth? People are stupid.

[FiSHr.]: yes they are

[a faerie tale]: *nods*

[Erutan]: I have found that for the most part now a days people are not stupid they are ignorant.

[Master Wolf]: no... most people are stupid, if only because they have conditioned themselves to hold to their ignorance, no matter how much evidence is presented to the contrary

[Erutan]: Actually if anything to the contrary I would say that it is people's ignorance that keeps them stupid... lol

[Fuu]: Though either way it still doesn't get rid of the stupidity that people hold.

[Erutan]: True.... though that is also held by fear of all things that are out side of their boxes...

[Master Wolf]: many fear what is inside their boxers, too... but that's another tale for another day

[a faerie tale]: Oh dear. That is one scary thought.

[lady.crimson]: i love being a pagan...i just love it, so much joy!

[a faerie tale]: lol

[lady.crimson]: i know it sounds silly, but its changed my life (DUH) and im so much happier!!!

[a faerie tale]: Yeah.......that;s what happened to me....

[lady.crimson]: its the most amazing feeling!!! :D

[a faerie tale]: ......yes........

[Lady Erunáme]: Indeed.

[lady.crimson]: and im enjoying every moment of it, savouring it like you would savour swimming in moonlight, or swimming in chocolate, equally devine!!! lol

[a faerie tale]: Yes. Chocolate.

[BLack Sheep 666]: may i join?

[Lord Sky_Elf]: yup you can

[Firenze]: Hello, I deal in mainly Celtic beliefs and rituals so if you want to talk to me about that then you are more than welcome.

[BLack Sheep 666]: i put what i am in my coven

[a faerie tale]: ......Oh wow.

[BLack Sheep 666]: im only 19 but i can do a lot they say im very talented

[Lady Erunáme]: Each has his own talent, and I must congratualte you on discovering and perfecting your own at such a young age, Black Sheep.

[BLack Sheep 666]: thank you my grandma taught me all i know

[Firenze]: When I lived in Dartmoor, I was taught by my next door neighbour plus I have celtic roots.

[lady.crimson]: my whole family is strict christian...you all have a nasty headstart...

[Firenze]: My family are all strict Christians and I am classed as a godless child and they keep saying I will go to hell if I don't start praying to God. It is quite sad really.

[lady.crimson]: I KNOW!!!!! to my family satanist,evil,pagan, all the same thing all going to hell...it is sad

[Erutan]: People who are that ignorant and close minded... Piss me off and need to wake up... I mean if family members are saying shit like that to their own blood / kin then they need to get.... (a wake up call) not to be rude or anything, but that kind of shit really gets to me.

[Erutan]: However, as of late I have been having some real fun with it... I mean if they are not going to change their opinions of me, then why should I still let it get under my skin... so I know tell them that if that is what they think and if they really believe that i am a satanist and all of that then They better not Piss me off.. lol that shuts them up real fast... and it is funny as hell to see the look on their faces ... lol it is priceless!

[lady.crimson]: yeah i did that for awhile til the school called my parents..lol. Let others believe what they will, but my parents? that will always bother me... i thuoght they would just see how happy i am, and be happy for me...too much 2 ask for?

[Erutan]: No.... and that is one thing that I know I will never do... I am lucky enough to have parents who are happy to see me happy and never really forced a religion on me... they let me find my own belifs and such and I will do the same if and when I have kids... To me it is just really sad that Parents can be so Pig-Headed... it is ... GRRRRR... Wrong and dumb... I am really sorry for all of the bull that you must deal with.

[lady.crimson]: thank you!!!! :) :) :) but ive stopped it from damaging me, and im tryin to learn from it...trying very hard...*my prayer is in the prayer room* 

[Erutan]: lol... Well that is a good thing. I hope that all works out.

[lady.crimson]: so do i...thanks

[Erutan]: You are welcome

[a faerie tale]: Oh....I have a neighboor who is Catholic, and he has seen me...do....*ahem* things.....And he keeps trying to convert me, and excorcise me. It's all pretty scary.

[Erutan]: With all do respect, if anyone tryed to convert me never mind excorcise me then I would flip out on them and if it was some one my age I would most likely knock them on their ass. That is not only rude, but it is a very dangerous thing... weather or not it appears that way they are pushing a lot of negitive energy toward you and that can cause mental, physical, and spiritual problems. I highly suggest that you tell them to back off.

[lady.crimson]: i am constantly bombarded with notes that say "we're praying for you" and ive even found letters in my locker from anonomous authurs *cowards* trying to convert me!!!!! it really angers me. i leave them be and let them practice what they want, you wont see me throwing pagan truths and pentagrams into their lockers, or inviting them to my rituals!! and it spoils my whole day, and taints what ever magic, or meditation i attempt!! is that normal?

[Delladreing]: ah the joys of the preachy types not

[Erutan]: Actually it is very normal... when ever your emotional state of being is out of wack so to speak.... or you are going through extream levels of emotion, your abilities are greatly effected. Though I would suggest that you try to find out if there are any other people your age around you who believe the same things. If not the I would turn around and make some flyers or something and on them state the simple basis of your belief and at the bottom state in bold...'I AM NOT GOING TO CHANGE FOR ANYONE.' and if they still do things bring it up to the School council and start charging people with religious slander and what ever else you can.

[Erutan]: I did that once when a teacher started crap with me about my beliefs and the after math of it was that she was forced to take a year sabbatical.

[a faerie tale]: I have told him to back off. Thank you for the motivation! He still tries to ssk me why the devil has taken up this void in my life. *sigh* Stupid bgotry.

[Lady Erunáme]: It's hard to determine whether they mean well, or if they just want power over you. I try to give people like that the benefit of the doubt, while maintianing an attitude that makes paganism look really classy. If you lash out, you aren't being a good example.

[a faerie tale]: Yes. I have often seen people at my school who are extremely defensive. They start yelling about ho they don't mean any harm, they can't mean any harm, and things like that. That's when I go and hide in my friends dorm.

[Erutan]: Lashing out is never a way to do things... as Lady Eruanme stated... do things that will come off as classy, though do not be scared to put some attitude in it. Though most people either a want power over you or they are extremely ignorant and they think that their way is the only way, which is not right either. As far as them meaning harm... Even though they do not see it that way, we whom have experienced things like this know that no matter what they are being harmful to us emotionally. In the cases where they no not of what they do, then it is time to tell them, in a classy/respectful way; such as ask them how they would feel if some one was always telling them that they are wrong,

[Erutan]: and saying to them that your prayers are with them, and always asking why they have let the devil fill the void within them.

[Erutan]: I think that for those who are that ignorant it is hard for them to see the pain they can cause others when they do shit like that. That is why you should tell them that You will never chance your views about your beliefs and that they should not try to convert you, and that you will not as you have not tried to convert them. Tell them to leave you in peace, and that you will not bother them so long as they do not bother you.

[lady.crimson]: *nods head while taking notes of Erutans wise words, and realisng ill forget it all when they upset me again*...but ill try ;) reacting rashly is never good, gives them more to go on...

[Fireblade K'Chona]: Wow, I really haven't been here for a while.

[Erutan]: The hardest thing to do is trying to not let them get to you... I still let them get under my skin, but the thing that keeps me strong is the fact that I know who I am, and I am proud to be. You just have to keep in your heart the love that you have for your belief, keep the light in your heart and know that they will never be as strong as you are... because most are who they are because they are told to be so by others... they parents teach them the "values" and pass on to their children the same ignorace that seporated people do to skin color. The hardest thing to understand is that everything is for a reason... and that each are intitled to what they believe... and at times even though

[Erutan]: they chosse to preach the phrase.... "to each their own." has to be remembered, so that way their we can move on.

[Erutan]: You do not need my words... just follow your heart... let the strength of your soul give you all you need to see past their ignorace and see your path... know that you are being guided by something that most will never understand, and that you have the potencial to be more then they ever can, because you can see beyond religion, race, kreed, color, and everything else, because those are the strongest gifts that the Gods, and Goddesses have given to us. The spirits of the elements and the angels of the old and new, walk among us because we choose to see beyond what is before out faces. We can see the souls of all life, never forget this, and things shall become easyer to over come.

[Zab]: just wonder....what do you think is nessesary to be "alowed" to call someone/myself a pagan?

[Erutan]: what dose your heart say? What is it you know about Pagans? What do you practice? What/Who do you believe in? If you were to worship some one or some group who would they be? If you have strong answers to this, and you support your thoughts with reasons why and you know that this is true to you... then you can call yourself what you will.

[Zab]: My heart tell me to worship nature, balance, life, friendship and protect it. The problem is that I feel like I don´t know anything and cannot follow my heart..

[Erutan]: Start by finding ways in which you best work with nature, and balance. You have to trust that you know more then you think and that it would be best to trust you intuission. Try to look up on the web things that are related to nature/Pagans and see where you think that you best fit.

[Zab]: I´ve done.. about a year ago..eclectic pagan sounded just like what I already feel.

[Erutan]: then so be it... you do not need permission from others to be what it is you feel.

[Zab]: Thanks...*don´t say it´s not neccesary to thank you: you made me feel better*

[Erutan]: You are welcome, I am glad to be of some help.

[Zab]: *smile* Blessed be?

[Erutan]: *bows*

[Zab]: *oh..how should I react..*

[Erutan]: lol... no reaction needed.

[Zab]: Not used to people bowing at me..I feel so insecure..

[Erutan]: There is no need... it is one of the ways that I show respect, either a full bow or a bow of the head.

[Zab]: oh...thanks for the sign of respect...I usually don´t show it. Exept by my acts and way of treating people

[Fireblade K'Chona]: Respect is a good thing. A girl in my math class had to do a "R-E-S-P-E-C-T" cheer for a rally. She said it was embarrassing. Anyway, yes, eclecticism (sp?) is what I like, too. Mix 'n match, sort of. Except not.

[Zab]: it is very..free. Don´t really like other religions when they say: belive this and you must believe everything...but thath´s just my opinion...^^

[abandonedhouse7 7]: I hate it when religions go "do this or you'll go to hell" or "if you do that you'll never reach the afterlife" blah blah blah...

[Master Wolf]: Definately one of the things I've always liked about Paganism is that it's so open to interpretation. (Although the Wiccans would have us believe otherwise...)

[abandonedhouse7 7]: Wicca is a very open religion too! It depends which method you follow.

[Zab]: yup....

[BLack Sheep 666]: being wicca * as i an* we sugar coat everything. that's why other pagans call me a fluffy bunny witch.

[Master Wolf]: I was refering to Alexandrian Wicca, who are a little uptight. Of course, I mean no offence, it's just not my preference.

[abandonedhouse7 7]: Oh, I don't follow specific guidelines. I sort of... mix and match. After all, Wicca is about one's inner goddess (god) as well as the supernatural. *nods head, trying to sound clever* ^_^

[Thorgin]: I'm also an eclectic pagan

[abandonedhouse7 7]: That's a posh word. I had to use the dictionary to find out that one! :S

[Zab]: ^^

[lady.crimson]: why do some pagans look down on wiccans? it kinda goes against the whole "pagan thingy" (WOW that does not sound clever!!) not judge and all.... 

[Zab]: Actually I don´t even know the differenses?

[abandonedhouse7 7]: Me neither.

[Fireblade K'Chona]: There are differences-though it's sort of like Catholicism and Protestants, I suppose, because they have the same roots but are different. Or maybe Christianity and Judaism. Anyway, see Playgans and look for the Wiccan laws.

[Shardae]: Hey How is everyone?

[lady.crimson]: can someone please tell me the difference between Neo Pagans and Pagans or are we the same?

[Lioness2]: The main difference between pagan and wiccan is that wicca is a religion based on paganism which was started in the 1950-60's. Started by people like Gardener and Crowley, who came up with a major tier system, where as in paganism, the only real tier system was adopted by the Druids, most other pagans were either solitary (what they called 'hedgewitches', who were often the village wise woman or Apothecary), or if in covens they were all seen as equal. I have no idea what neo-pagans are...thats an area i've been left behind in, lol.

[Master Wolf]: Considering the pagans were all wiped out by the Romans several hundred years ago, we're all Neo-Pagans: wicca, hedge-witch, wizard, etc.

[Shardae]: Hmm there's no way that they were all whiped out cause there's no way that we could be here without anyone showing us the ways.

[pinefairy]: true

[Lioness2]: [Master Wolf] Sorry, have to differ with you there. The Romans never became a christian nation anyway, some stayed predominately pagan, but in any case, they never 'wiped out' pagans....otherwise how else were the wise women and apothecaries able to carry out their duties in medieval times? They themselves tell of the knowledge being handed down the family, often by word of mouth and stories, as it was always dangerous to condemn yourself by writing things out onto paper. If you actually look into the history books, the GOOD ones, you'll find that pagans survived through to modern day, or at least their knowledge did. Anyone here read Witch Child by Celie Reese? its a true story...

[Shardae]: No...I should read it.

[Lioness2]: its very interesting. They found pages of a diary inside an old patchwork type quilt that was being taken apart for restoration, and its basically a translation of the pages. Some bits are quite chilling, the things they say and do to the girl...

[Shardae]: what do they do?

[Lioness2]: ahhh, you'll have to read the book my dear *smirks*

[Nere]: *would point out that Constantine, the Roman emporer that legalised Christianity and made it the religion of the empire, was a follower of Mars and Sol Invictus aka Apollo. He attributed his victory over Rome (for he was the sole ruler of the western half of the empire to begin with) to the power of "the God of the Christians" and committed himself to the Christian faith from that day on, although his understanding of the Christian faith at this time was quite superficial. Constantine did not receive baptism until shortly before his death. Indeed, most of the Roman movement against Pagan tribes was to do with enlarging the empire, gaining more power, and slave, wealth, ect... * 

[Nere]: ...So they neither wiped out pagan faith, nor the pagans themselves.... for the most part I would say they used religion as a tool to gain and exert power... this seems the most logical reason for the politicians to embrace the religion that was gathering more and more followers....

[Lioness2]: Well said and well researched [Nere]....

[Nere]: *shrug* ... I don't know about that... but I think I got the gist of it down :)

[Fireblade K'Chona]: Except then the missionaries started going.

[Lioness2]: don't even talk to me about missionaries. Mind you, a lot weren't as nasty as they make them out to be...in fact, some of them actually agreed with the pagans, and worshipped their own religion beside them...

[Fireblade K'Chona]: Yeah, but there were just as many witch hunters as not. -sigh- Oh, I have a question. I think I was given my...um, I guess I should call it 'truename' the other day, except I'm not sure. Help?

[Nere]: ... eh.... fanaticism was bound to occur... and it's much easier to allow other people to do your thinking for you, particularly in a time when the majority of people were uneducated.... people with money and education could easily take advantage... Although I would like to point out that I don't have a problem with christians in general... I just think that it's important to think about why you believe something... rather than take it for granted.... if that makes any sense whatsoever... :P

[Lioness2]: I am the same [Nere], I've met christians that couldnt give a monkeys what i am, and happily sit down for a beer with me on a rainy weekend. Then there's the ones that call you a 'devil worshipper', and pull their kids away from you when you're around...stupidity. I don't pay no heed...my mind is my own, and so is my beliefs, anyone who has a problem can kiss my little, cold, english butt... :)

[Nere]: exactly.... apart from the english butt... I'm an aussie myself :D ^.-

[Lioness2]: so your butt's a nice warm one then...*jealous*

[Fireblade K'Chona]: Hehe. American, here. Please don't hate me. I can't help where I was born! -ducks head- Besides, I'm a Seattlite, and that means automatic coolness. West Coast rules. ^_^ (Er, any thoughts on my question up there?)

[Lioness2]: I'm thinking of emmigrating to Canada...its so beautiful there. Yet i complain about the cold! I must be fucking nuts :)  Bedtime for me now, i think 4am is late enough. Night all...

[Lioness2]: And no...sorry, i'm not too good with the whole name thing. I made my own up, even then mine can change as i grow from one stage of my life cycle to the others. I always get an inclination of the name, it tends to echo in my head or i might add it to a story i'm writing and think 'ah, thats the name i need...that MEANS something'. Now i'm going to bed :P

[Fireblade K'Chona]: Oh. OK. I'd just finished a short little prayer-thing and I'd walked away and suddenly it rang in my head. So was I just sleep-deprived, or what?

[Nere]: .... I'm not really sure either... My advice... go with your instinct....

[Fireblade K'Chona]: OK. I'll meditate on it, or something. -sigh- I was sleep-deprived at the time, and strange things happen when I don't get enough sleep. Even if I miss an hour of sleep. Once I went to bed and I woke up early in the morning and I swear I saw one of my classmates standing by my dresser, except she lives far away, and then I fell back asleep, so...yeah. Anyway. Got to go practice flute and stuff. Later!

[Shardae]: *looks at Lioness* But I wanna know!! hehe..

[Lioness2]: Tough. Not the sharing type. I remember going without sleep for 5 days once, after a particularly difficult and serious situation had ended. Thats the worst i've ever been. I like me sleep too much to be without it, i NEED at least 8-10 hrs at a time, or i feel so crappy. I'm also really bad at sleeping at night, i normally go to bed between 3-6am, then get up between about 1-3pm. The bliss of being unemployed at the moment, lol...

[Shardae]: yeah lol..same here...

[spongemonkey]: hihi!!!!

[Shardae]: hello

[spongemonkey]: how be everyone?

[Morbid Poet]: me be good

[spongemonkey]: :) thats nice

[Shardae]: I'm good? How bless you?

[spongemonkey]: alright-y

[Shardae]: that's good..blessed be that you are good...i'm really spiritual tonight, can you tell?

[spongemonkey]: lmao!! you've used the word 'bless/ed' twice!!!

[Shardae]: Yeah I over use it a bit when i'm like this

[spongemonkey]: oh well, at least your religious!! :D

[Shardae]: true about that..I need to go meditate...lol

[spongemonkey]: teehee!!!!

[Shardae]: it's been forever

[spongemonkey]: ack. me too, things have been really busy >.> stupid ACTs.

[Shardae]: yeah i've just slept alot

[spongemonkey]: mmmmm...sleep. sounds like fun!!

[Shardae]: yea kinda, but the Sight has been getting to me lately..so yeah

[spongemonkey]: ah, thats to bad.

[Shardae]: yep, I was blessed with it at birth...blah!! and with that came shortness...i thin

[spongemonkey]: erk. same here I'm like 5"2 >.> but on the bright side, the insanely short will one day rule the earth!!!!

[Shardae]: *claps* yeah..I'm more like 5' if I was 4'10" then I would be average height for the wise women

[Fireblade K'Chona]: Haha! I'm 5'8"! Mwahaha.